Creation VS Evolution

[Forte.Exe]

In noahs ark: If you believe every single creature on earth existed at the same time, then the food chain would be ****ed. If the ark was real, it would have to be as big as alaska, maybe even north america! You must be bull****ing if your telling me 9 nomads with no engineering intelligence built a ''wooden death star''. There aren't enough trees on the continent to do that, and besides, it's only 9 people. It would take hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years to build such an anomaly by just 9 people! In the time it takes to build the thing, errosion would take place and it would break. It is unlikely that you could make such a craft and not have over a million leaks is the side. They didn't have the tech to travel to the other continents to get those animals. They didn't have the tech to catch them, or even know how many there were. There would surely be evidence of such a craft.


Ok, about noahs ark, if the ark was any where near the size of the mountian(which it must be) It would crack in two or tip over. Think of trying to land an elephant on a sturdy stone pencil. The ark would be destroyed, along with a small percentage of the animals. The ark would be way too heavy to float, it would sink like a rock. All the things inside would eventually run out of air even if the ark was sealed completely.

Enough of the ark for now... Lets talk about how just 2 people can populate the Earth. If this happened, then this would induce imbreeding, which is prohibited by god. Imbreeding creates genetic deformities as well. And one more thing for now... Kane and Able were Adam and Eves sons. God tells Kane he would put a sighn on Kanes hand or whatever to tell other people in the world not to hurt him. What other people? Adam and Eve are supposed to be the only humans! This is a major contradiction.
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well heres another one of my crazy stories, which i didnt make just copied and paste it.

Are you a Creationist or Evolutionist?

i myself am a Creationist.

ok Adam and Eve suppose to be the first humans ever, thrown out of the perfect place due to disobeying god. (not hard to belive)

it took them only a while to populate the world, but people confuse the world for what it is today. the population today would be much much much higher of what it would of been back then.
you may ask, how could 2 people populate a whole world? well if we "evolved" there had to be the first humans aswell and they populated the world too.

now your thinking they populated the world in 6000 years, well look at us now in only a few years we have gone up 4-5billion people, more than enough to populate the world.

this thread is not about religion but about how we got here.

[Vipershark]

Evolution makes the most sense. Here's what I think.

The only thing that doesn't make sense about evolution is that in the big bang theory, there were gases and stuff floating around in space, which caused the universe to form. Where id these gases come from? There couldn't have just been nothingness and gases would just suddenly appear, could it? Something would have had to create these gases. That leads back to creation. The problem with that is, if there is some kind of higher power, where did it come from? It couldn't just appear either! That leads back to evolution, but something would have had to create the higher power..... creation again. But where did the creator of the creator come from? It goes on and on forever.

[~Felly~]

Creationist... I can't really explain why, but just go with Forte's post because it's technically what I could say in longer and more explained terms.

[Nova]

Creavolutionist. I dont believe that adam and eve were real. The bible in that part stated that people lived about 700 years which i think is exxagerated by the people who wrote the bible. I think that god put animals on this planet and put another animal in particular. Now this is where i believe in evolution. This animal was basically a "seed" In time it eeolved and evolevd until it finally became what we are today. But i think that this seed is only about half way grown and we still have alot to evolve. Thats just my opinion

[Invader_gir]

Evolution makes the most sense. Here's what I think.

The only thing that doesn't make sense about evolution is that in the big bang theory, there were gases and stuff floating around in space, which caused the universe to form. Where id these gases come from? There couldn't have just been nothingness and gases would just suddenly appear, could it? Something would have had to create these gases. That leads back to creation. The problem with that is, if there is some kind of higher power, where did it come from? It couldn't just appear either! That leads back to evolution, but something would have had to create the higher power..... creation again. But where did the creator of the creator come from? It goes on and on forever.
matter vs anti matter

matter and anti matter cant mix.. they collide and BO-fυckin'-OM! a rather large bang..

i shall explain more on the big bang when it doesnt hurt so much to type.. but rest assure that i have learnt =P

[Vipershark]

Where would the matter and antimatter come from???

And another reason creation doesn't make sense: No dinosaurs. We've found their bones, but how come there is no record of them in creation?

[Laguna Loire]

And another reason creation doesn't make sense: No dinosaurs. We've found their bones, but how come there is no record of them in creation?

Exactly. This is why I dislike the concept of creationism.

If you are a creationist, you must ignore all scientific, rational, and logical evidence of the first beings on this planet and how it was created.

My chemistry teacher once told me a true story about a creationist he knew in university. He said "How can you believe in creationism when we've found dinosaur fossils which prove their existance?" The creationist said "The fossils were planted there by god to test our faith."

For god's sake, if anyone agrees with the creationist's theory, I will impale you onto my bedroom wall, because that is one of the stupidest theorys I've ever heard.

If you haven't already gathered, I'm an evolutionist. :P

[~Felly~]

I think we kinda figured that out, LS... And after rereading the d*mn post... I misread somethings, which now changes my opinion. I am now an evolutionist. Why? Well, Adam and Eve were kicked outta the garden place because they took fruit off of the great tree which may or may not exist. The question is, how could they have kids if they didn't know about reproduction? Now dinosaurs were real because of fossils that prove their exsistance.

I'll add more when it hurts less to type with my left hand..

[Invader_gir]

dont forget that adam and eve were said to only have three sons =]

[Forte.Exe]

well if we did find dinosaurs, the creation theory is only about humans forget the rest of the animals, dinosaurs evolved from early amphibious things.
you dont need to know about reproduction to reproduce.

[~Felly~]

Actually, yes you do because you won't know how to do certain things to reproduce and have kids... Something could go wrong, and the kid/kids would die.

[Forte.Exe]

something could go wrong but it didnt, it went right

[Invader_gir]

no it didnt.. if there was enough inbreading at the beginning of homosepiens or however thats spelled, we could have had neat bat-like wings!

[[N]eto]

Well, if they ate the fruit of knowledge, don't you think Adam and Eve would know about reproduction?

Nevertheless, I'm neither a creationist or evolutionist. I understand we have evolved, but that doesn't make me an evolutionist.

[Brown Bear]

First of all, back in the time of Noahs Ark, there weren't as many animals as there are now. According to what people say about evolution, animals can evolve to create completely different species, and back in that time, all thre needed to be is the basic animals to create their huge amount of relatives on the family tree. This explains why the boat probably wasn't so heavy it would sink.

Now about building Noah's Ark, since it didn't have to be so extremely huge (It is written: "Make it 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high" Genesis 6:15), It would take 100 years tops to create the ark, and Noah lived to be 950 years old, for people lived longer back then.

They didn't catch the animals either; God commanded the animals to go to him, and even if he did, it wouldn't have taken over 10 years to do this.
To keep the boat afloat, it was made of resinous wood, which was firmly sealed with tar inside and out to keep out the water; for it is written: "Make a boat from resinous wood and seal it with tar, inside and out..." Genesis 6:14. It is also written: "Construct an opening all the way around the boat, 18 inches from the roof..." Genesis 6:16. So there was a large window for air.

Also, there wasn't just two people populating the earth, God only talks about Adam and Eve at first in the Bible and says he placed them in the Garden of Eden, never anything about creating or not creating others later in different places.

This is why I beleive in creation, rather than evolution, and I don't see how we could have possibly come from monkeys, because we are only 99% alike, the other 1% is what makes the HUGE difference.

[~Felly~]

Actually, I think I might've came from a monkey because of my hyperness...

[Forte.Exe]

so what your sayin is...your a hyper hairy monkey? :P :D

anyways if humans evolved why arent they still evolving today?

[~Felly~]

No, it was SARCASM. And I'm not hairy. T_T (Or short...)

And we're not evolving because we didn't come from monkeys, apes, or any of the monkey family...

[Forte.Exe]

so if we didnt evolve frop apes, then from what?

if we didnt evolve then we must have been created

[Invader_gir]

so what your sayin is...your a hyper hairy monkey? :P :D

anyways if humans evolved why arent they still evolving today?
apparently the western contries arent evolving at the usual rate because of chemicals or whatever that we put into our bodies.. though asian and whatever contries are elovling at the usual rate because they are healthier

[[N]eto]

First of all, back in the time of Noahs Ark, there weren't as many animals as there are now. According to what people say about evolution, animals can evolve to create completely different species, and back in that time, all thre needed to be is the basic animals to create their huge amount of relatives on the family tree. This explains why the boat probably wasn't so heavy it would sink.

Now about building Noah's Ark, since it didn't have to be so extremely huge (It is written: "Make it 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high" Genesis 6:15), It would take 100 years tops to create the ark, and Noah lived to be 950 years old, for people lived longer back then.

They didn't catch the animals either; God commanded the animals to go to him, and even if he did, it wouldn't have taken over 10 years to do this.
To keep the boat afloat, it was made of resinous wood, which was firmly sealed with tar inside and out to keep out the water; for it is written: "Make a boat from resinous wood and seal it with tar, inside and out..." Genesis 6:14. It is also written: "Construct an opening all the way around the boat, 18 inches from the roof..." Genesis 6:16. So there was a large window for air.

Also, there wasn't just two people populating the earth, God only talks about Adam and Eve at first in the Bible and says he placed them in the Garden of Eden, never anything about creating or not creating others later in different places.

This is why I beleive in creation, rather than evolution, and I don't see how we could have possibly come from monkeys, because we are only 99% alike, the other 1% is what makes the HUGE difference.


You didn't just try to use evolutionism to your advantage, did you?
Hah, figures religious fanatics would begin to use logic to cover up what can't otherwise be explained in the bible.

Saying people lived to be 950 years old back then would mean that certain emperors wouldn't have ceased reign over their empires for a much longer period of time, meaning things would be much, much different from the way things are now.

Does it make sense?
No, I didn't think so.

[0NSLAUGHT]

personally , im an evolutionist (and new :D)

however i dont know if anyone has ever heard this

but a few select scientisits believe that the earth was inhapped by an 'alien race' long before anything else lived , its sounds pretty impossible but it could have some impact , also it sounds like ive taken that all from war of thr worlds but i havent

but then 'alien races' seem to be flying about everywhere (pun not intended) , i mean the ayrian race , blonde hair blue eyed ( the nazis pretty much) were said to have come from a star 300 times the size of the sun in the star formation of tauros .

quite alot of things can be linked to creation , eg . if it was evolution , why did so many creatures manage to evolve from the molecules that combined on earth ?

look at the human body , it seems created , the way everything works seems too good , although we did evole over millions of years

where there even apes and monkeys before cavemen ? because if they werent it would seem cavemen just spawned

something cant just come into existance , which is why im at a crossroads between the two

i do however believe the earth was due to the big bang , not created but it gets difficult to explain why so many creatures formed from gamma (i think this is right) atoms

obiously the easy solution is to say someone created it

but who knows

we could be living in the matrix

a discussion like this does bring up many points , for every point and evolutionist makes , it can be countered by a theory of creation

hope i gave some insight :D

[Brown Bear]

eto']You didn't just try to use evolutionism to your advantage, did you?
Hah, figures religious fanatics would begin to use logic to cover up what can't otherwise be explained in the bible.

Saying people lived to be 950 years old back then would mean that certain emperors wouldn't have ceased reign over their empires for a much longer period of time, meaning things would be much, much different from the way things are now.

Does it make sense?
No, I didn't think so.

People didn't live 950 years back then. A few peopl did, but most people lived up to 700 years old, and some only 300 years. Now, why did they live longer? Probably because they haven't been destroying their surroundings and harming themselves with pollution. Also, if you have ever managed to glance in the Bible every so often, you would notice that 'It is written': "When the human population began to grow rapidly on the earth, the sons of God saw the beautiful women of the human race and took any they wanted as their wives. Then the Lord said, "My Spirit will not put up with humans for such a long time, for they are only mortal flesh. In the future, they will live no more than 120 years."" Genesis 6:1-3

[[N]eto]

People didn't live 950 years back then. A few peopl did, but most people lived up to 700 years old, and some only 300 years. Now, why did they live longer? Probably because they haven't been destroying their surroundings and harming themselves with pollution. Also, if you have ever managed to glance in the Bible every so often, you would notice that 'It is written': "When the human population began to grow rapidly on the earth, the sons of God saw the beautiful women of the human race and took any they wanted as their wives. Then the Lord said, "My Spirit will not put up with humans for such a long time, for they are only mortal flesh. In the future, they will live no more than 120 years."" Genesis 6:1-3

Just to inform you, in case you didn't know, people live longer now than they did hundreds of years ago.

[0NSLAUGHT]

^ yup thats true

because of all the medicine and machines and such that we have now werent around in those days

only crazy cures

[Brown Bear]

because of all the medicine and machines and such that we have now werent around in those days


??? The medicines and machines that we have today are what is really killing us,
I think. They cause pollution and other chemicals, these chemicas, I beleive, give us a shortened life (along with the fact that I beleive that God had us create these machines to lower our life period). If you are thinking about the time of ancient peoples, like cavemen and such, they had short lives because:

1. They got killed by animals
2. Yes, they did not have technology against medicines, but I wasn't talking about these peoples
3. They had no idea what was good and not good for them

I beleive the earth isn't that old. to me, it is about 10,000 years old (after Genesis 1:2)

If you read the first two verses of the bible though, you can tell there is a gap between: "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." Genesis 1:1 Now, look at the second verse: "The earth was empty, a black mass cloaked in darkness. And the Spirit of God was hovering above it's surface" Genesis 1:2

Now if you put them together: "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was empty, a black mass cloaked in darkness. And the Spirit of God was hovering above it's surface" Genesis 1:1-2
See the time gap? God creates all things perfect, so I know that he didn't create the earth empty, and a black mass. I beleive it was when God threw Satan out of Heaven, because the force of it would have destroyed the earth.

[Vipershark]

They cause pollution and other chemicals, these chemicas, I beleive, give us a shortened life (along with the fact that I beleive that God had us create these machines to lower our life period).
So you're saying that we were created just to kill each other? To die?


See the time gap? God creates all things perfect, so I know that he didn't create the earth empty, and a black mass. I beleive it was when God threw Satan out of Heaven, because the force of it would have destroyed the earth.
That really made no sense.

Question: People who die become angels, right? How was satan able to converse with adam and eve if they were the 1st 2 people alive? Wouldn't he have to have been alove before them?

I don't see how we could have possibly come from monkeys, because we are only 99% alike, the other 1% is what makes the HUGE difference.
That 1% REALLY seems like a huge amount to me. I mean, it's not like the other 99% has anything to do with it.



Not sure if this is allowed or not, buf FEL, if it's not helping the discussion, PLEASE don't post it.

Stuff like this: Actually, I think I might've came from a monkey because of my hyperness...

[Forte.Exe]

1 percent my seem like a small percent but tell me, have you seen monkies in cities running free? malls? schools? anywhere at at thats social (not a zoo)

that 1% makes all the difference

[Vipershark]

I say we're more like 75 percent.

[Forte.Exe]

monkies share 99% of our DNA.

and we had a shorter life span in hundred years ago, thats because life isnt constant it keeps changing.
if we right now lost all medicine known how many ppl will die?

[Brown Bear]

Question: People who die become angels, right? How was satan able to converse with adam and eve if they were the 1st 2 people alive? Wouldn't he have to have been alove before them?


Yes, he was alive before both of them. People that die do not necessarily become angels, they just only have their Spirit left. Satan never died when he was thrown down from heaven, you can't die again after you are only a spirit. So Satan was able to converse with Adam and Eve, although I beleive he came to them in the appearance of a snake with limbs. After Satan tricked Adam and Eve, snakes were forced to crawl in the dust with no arms or legs.

[[N]eto]

Oh, the logic. The snake lured Adam and Eve into temptation, not tricked them. And if this, in itself, is true, that would mean that Adam and Eve were not made perfect by God.

Also, if Satan came to them in the image of a snake with limbs, there is no reason for God (if it is safe to assume) to punish the species by "[forcing them] to crawl in the dust with no arms or legs."

[Brown Bear]

eto']Oh, the logic. The snake lured Adam and Eve into temptation, not tricked them. And if this, in itself, is true, that would mean that Adam and Eve were not made perfect by God.

Yes, he tempted them, but also tricked Eve, because he knew she would take the fruit. Adam and Eve were made perfectly by God, but they weren't like robots, they had a choice of what to do with their life, and they sinned, so were sent out of garden.

eto']Also, if Satan came to them in the image of a snake with limbs, there is no reason for God (if it is safe to assume) to punish the species by "[forcing them] to crawl in the dust with no arms or legs."

He took away their limbs, so they [were forced] to crawl in the dust. I will safely guess that snakes before that time were probably somewhat like lizards, before losing limbs.

[Vipershark]

Yes, he was alive before both of them. People that die do not necessarily become angels, they just only have their Spirit left. Satan never died when he was thrown down from heaven, you can't die again after you are only a spirit. So Satan was able to converse with Adam and Eve, although I beleive he came to them in the appearance of a snake with limbs. After Satan tricked Adam and Eve, snakes were forced to crawl in the dust with no arms or legs.


I never said that he died twice. I'm saying that to get to heaven, you have to die first, right? Meaning that you have to be alive to die. So if adam and eve were the 1st 2 people created, how was he there? He would have had to live before them.

[Brown Bear]

I never said that he died twice. I'm saying that to get to heaven, you have to die first, right? Meaning that you have to be alive to die. So if adam and eve were the 1st 2 people created, how was he there? He would have had to live before them.

That made no sense whatsoever. How was he there? He was never a person, in this time gap, God supposedly created the Angels. But it didn't work out. He gave the Angels a mind of their own, and eventually, an angel decided that he was way better than his creator, and that he could defeat his own God. So he took some angels with him, and started going against God. At this point, God did not want him in Heaven anymore, so he threw them down to the earth; he banished them. Then he decided to make the Earth perfect, so he created it that way. After this, he created Adam and Eve, so Satan was already alive, but he was never a human, so Adam and Eve were the first people alive.

[[N]eto]

Okay, so I suppose God didn't learn his lesson the first time by giving Angels the ability to have a mind of their own, and still when trying to make the earth perfect, he decides to give humans a mind of their own.

Yes! It all makes sense now! *sigh*

[Forte.Exe]

you ever heard of second chances?
ever heard even if humans betrayed him, hes god what can we do?

it doesnt have to make sense to make it true.

[Invader_gir]

nah, just makes it idiotic

[[N]eto]

nah, just makes it idiotic

My point exactly.

[Forte.Exe]

idiotic but true, anyways thats just an opinion.

[Vipershark]

That made no sense whatsoever. How was he there? He was never a person, in this time gap, God supposedly created the Angels. But it didn't work out. He gave the Angels a mind of their own, and eventually, an angel decided that he was way better than his creator, and that he could defeat his own God. So he took some angels with him, and started going against God. At this point, God did not want him in Heaven anymore, so he threw them down to the earth; he banished them. Then he decided to make the Earth perfect, so he created it that way. After this, he created Adam and Eve, so Satan was already alive, but he was never a human, so Adam and Eve were the first people alive.

Yes it did. It made perfect sense. You have to be alive before you can die. You have to die to become an angel. How is it that satan was an angel if Adam and Eve were the first 2 people to be created, or to be alive? He would have had to be created before them, die, come back to earth, and THEN talk to them. Now do you get it?

[Forte.Exe]

you dont have to die to be an angel

[[N]eto]

idiotic but true, anyways thats just an opinion.

Now you are crossing that fine line by stating it as fact.

[Forte.Exe]

i wasnt even stating anything in that post, so how can i cross a line and state something as fact?

[[N]eto]

"Idiotic but true."

True? In other words, you're stating it as fact.

[Forte.Exe]

so just because its idiotic, doesnt mean it didnt happen or isnt true.
thats what i said

[[N]eto]

so just because its idiotic, doesnt mean it didnt happen or isnt true.
thats what i said

We're not saying otherwise either, but neither are we saying what we say is true.

Nevertheless, I'll never agree with anything the bible states as fact. Stories to teach moral values? Sure!