Story on God

[Forte.Exe]

An explanation

This is one of the best explanations of why God allows pain and suffering
that I have seen. It's an explanation all people will understand.


A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed. As
the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation. They
talked about so many things and various subjects.

When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said:

"I don't believe that God exists."

"Why do you say that?" asked the customer.

"Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't
exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people? Would
there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would be neither
suffering nor pain. I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of
these things."

The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want
to start an argument. The barber finished his job and the customer left the
shop. Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with
long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He looked dirty and
unkempt.

The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to
the barber: "You know what? Barbers do not exist."

"How can you say that?" asked the surprised barber. "I am here, and I am a
barber. And I just worked on you!"

"No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because if they did,
there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like
that man outside."

"Ah, but barbers DO exist! What happens is, people do not come to me."

"Exactly!"- affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES exist!
What happens, is, people don't go to Him and do not look for Him. That's
why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."

saw it on my friends myspace and thought you guys would wanna read it

[Invader_gir]

heres something you can consider.. this is what i believe. (taken from some site that i cant find (copied the entire thing to word.. if you want a copy just PM me or something)

Occam's razor was formulated by William of Occam (1285-1349) and says: "Non est ponenda pluralites size necessitate" or in English: "Do not multiply entities unless necessarily". It is a principle for scientific labor which means that one should use a simple explanation with a few explanatory premises before a more complex one.

Let's say that everything must be created, and that was done by an omnipotent god. A god which stands above time, space, moral and existence, which is self containing and in it self has it's own cause. This entity can surely be replaced by the known world. The world stands above time, space, moral, existence, is self containing and in it has its own meaning. Most theists agree that god has a nature. Then we must raise the question: who created god's nature? If we just accept that god has a nature and exists without a cause, why not say that the known world just is and that the laws of physics are what they are, without a cause?

God is not really an explanation, only a non-explanation. It is impossible to gain information from non-information so God as an explanation is a dead end. When we have said that the reason for something is that 'god did it that way' there is no way to understand it any further. We just shrug our shoulders and accept things as they are. To explain the unknown by god is only to explain how it happened, not why. If we are to investigate the world and build our views of life from the world, we cannot assume a god. Because adding god as an explanation leaves as many, if not more questions then it explains god has to be removed with Occam's razor if we are serious in investigating the world

[B]Some things are impossible to do:[/B]

There are things that are impossible to do. For example nobody can cover a two-dimensional surface with two-dimensional circles, without making them overlap. It is impossible to add the numbers two and two and get 666. You can not go back in time (without passing an infinite entropy barrier). The number of things that are impossible to do are almost infinite. If god were to be almighty he would be able to do them, but it's impossible to do so.

Some people say that he can only do things that are logically possible to do, but what is? Is it logically possible to walk on water? Is it logically possible to rise from the dead? Is it logically possible to stand above time, space and all other dimensions - and still exist? I'd say that everything which violates the laws of physics is logically impossible and thus omnipotence is logically impossible. Besides if omnipotence is a relative quality there is no way to tell omnipotence from non-omnipotence. For omnipotence to be a valid expression it must be absolute, but we have no objective criteria to measure omnipotence so the word itself is useless.

[B]Also, if god knows everything, he knows what he will do in the "future" (in any dimension, not necessary the time dimension). He must have known that from the very start of his own existence. Thus god's actions are predestined. God is tied by faith, he has no free will. If god has no free will god is not omnipotent. Another way to put it is that to be able to make plans and decisions one must act over time. If god stands above time he can not do that and has no free will. Indeed, if god stands above all dimensions god is dimensionless - a singularity, nothing, void!

Besides there can exist no free wills at all if god is almighty. If you had a free will, god wouldn't know what you would do tomorrow and wouldn't be omnipotent.
[/B]

[Forte.Exe]

so much for a simple explanation lol
but i get what it is saying

[Invader_gir]

[QUOTE=Forte.Exe]so much for a simple explanation lol
but i get what it is saying[/QUOTE]
its proof.. i asked 'doctor of thuganomics' to counter what i said and give proof there is a god. that said, why doesnt anyone post some evidence? why dont you?

[Forte.Exe]

well that story only shows on what humans think
back in the 1400s humanity thougth it was impossible to sail around the the world since it was "flat" but they were proved wrong as they learned more information.
people use to think there was no way to get to the moon they were also wrong as techonolgy advanced.

we cannot officialy declare if there is or isnt a god until we know everything about this univers, we dont even know a percent of the things the universe holds

[Good Ol' Redneck]

[QUOTE=Forte.Exe]An explanation

This is one of the best explanations of why God allows pain and suffering
that I have seen. It's an explanation all people will understand.


A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed. As
the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation. They
talked about so many things and various subjects.

When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said:

"I don't believe that God exists."

"Why do you say that?" asked the customer.

"Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't
exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people? Would
there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would be neither
suffering nor pain. I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of
these things."

The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want
to start an argument. The barber finished his job and the customer left the
shop. Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with
long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He looked dirty and
unkempt.

The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to
the barber: "You know what? Barbers do not exist."

"How can you say that?" asked the surprised barber. "I am here, and I am a
barber. And I just worked on you!"

"No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because if they did,
there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like
that man outside."

"Ah, but barbers DO exist! What happens is, people do not come to me."

"Exactly!"- affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES exist!
What happens, is, people don't go to Him and do not look for Him. That's
why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."

saw it on my friends myspace and thought you guys would wanna read it[/QUOTE]


thank you, i really needed one of yall to say soemthin like that and this is the best explination that i have ever heard about god...

heres my extremely simple explanation: people in the past were very stupid and clueless and did not know wat a lot of things were and couldnt understand a lot of things and then some crazy people came up with the "god" concept and thought that there was an almighty being who created every thing and they used that to explain things. these people preached to the nieve population and gained followers and these people passed their faiths down through the generations and its been continuely passed down the generations and thats why people today believe in god

[Forte.Exe]

you have anything to back that story up?

[Laguna Loire]

****, isn't it common sense?

The Bible did not descend from the heavens, it was man-made. Where is the proof that God even exists? In the Bible? The Bible written by MAN? Hah! Read the words of Anton LaVey (I can't be bothered to go upstairs, find the Satanic Bible, find the page and type in the exact quote, but this is basically what he says) - the Christian Bible was man-made. Therefore, by proxy, are you not worshipping the mortal who wrote the Bible? I ask you...why do you worship one who held the exact same power as you do now?

Why do we suffer? Two explanations:

1. God doesn't exist (VERY LIKELY).
2. God hates us all (as Slayer eloquently puts it ).

^nuff said

[Sesshy]

Not tyring to start argument but..........


God indeed is very true.God loves us all if he hated us We would all be in hell now.If theres no good,what will we be when we die.Nothing but Enternal Darkness.If there was no god,and only the devil,what would the world be like now.Complete Chaos.Adamn and Eve was created by god and thus they kept reproducing(having babys)and then there childre had babies nd so on and so on.I know someobdy is probably gonna say We can from Gorillas and from cavemen but if something cause the dinosaurs to be extenct woundt cavemen be with them thus another question to solve.

[Laguna Loire]

^ That's all well and good, but WHERE IS YOUR PROOF?

Think logically about it. Have you ever seen God? Have you ever heard him? Has he ever literally answered your prayers?

I thought not.

And btw, look around you. The world IS in complete chaos. We are surrounded by war and poverty even as we speak. How can you say there is a loving god when we live in a world like this?

[Invader_gir]

im not saying that god isnt real but satan is.. god, satan, jesus.. its all bullshіt. sure, jesus could have existed and just been some average guy with schizophrenia, but ive seen a few things that argue with that on a group on last.fm im in.

1)There is no record of Herod killing all the under 2s. People have recorded other atrocities committed by him yet curiously leave this one out.

2)There is no record of census in Herod's time either. In any case, the rule saying you have to be in your hometown on Census night is an Egyptian one not Roman.

3) How exactly do you follow a star as the 3 wise men supposedly did. Try it and see.

4) There is no record of a place called Nazareth at the time of Jesus' supposed birth.

5) The bible authors Paul, Mark and John didn't know the Jesus birth story.

6) Jesus supposedly performed miracles to crowds of thousands, yet none of these thousands of people felt compelled to tell others or to write about it.

7) The historian Philo visited Jerusalem many times during Jesus' supposed life and mentions all about local occurences at the time. Yet he fails to mention anything about the supposedly famous Jesus let alone his miracles.

8) The bible author Paul doesn't seem to know about Jesus' miracles either - since he doesn't mention them.

9) There are no records of Jesus' trial, in spite of the fact that it would have been big news at the time. Jesus being spat on would have been as scandalous then as a Supreme court judge spitting on the defendant would be now. Yet nobody wrote about it.

10) There are no records of a Jesus, son of Joseph being crucified by Pontus Pilate (though there are considerable records of other less 'famous' crims who received that punishment

11) Nobody felt the need to record that zombies were walking the streets of Jerusalem after Jesus' death. Wouldn't this be pretty major news?.

12) Nobody recorded an earthquake in Jerusalem after his death either yet similar earthquakes several years earlier were recorded.

god is bullshіt, satan is worse and jesus is schizophrenic

[Forte.Exe]

[QUOTE=Liquid Snake]^ That's all well and good, but WHERE IS YOUR PROOF?

Think logically about it. Have you ever seen God? Have you ever heard him? Has he ever literally answered your prayers?

I thought not.

And btw, look around you. The world IS in complete chaos. We are surrounded by war and poverty even as we speak. How can you say there is a loving god when we live in a world like this?[/QUOTE]

well whers your proof?
have you ever seen him? i guess no so how can you be so sure he exist?
have you heard him? no you havent
has he answered your prayers? yes guess what i have gotten a few answered

and about your last few statements...did you not read my first post?
in order for god to help us we have to go to him.

[Laguna Loire]

I said LITERALLY answered your prayers! Which means he has to verbally answer them. So what if you've prayed for something and it's happened? That isn't physical, logical proof that God exists.

So, by your logic, if everyone on this planet prays to God, everything will be alright? All suffering will be over, just like that? [sarcasm] Gee. That sounds dandy. I think I'll go upstairs, pray, then tell all my friends on MSN to do the same and hope they don't laugh at me![/sarcasm]

"God" is a crutch for the weak-minded. 'If you have a problem, talk to God, and it'll be alright' they say. If you're weak, fine, you pray to an imaginary being. I choose not to do so.

And btw, again, about your first post - you got that from a friend's Myspace. A MYSPACE. [sarcasm] ****in' reliable source you got there... [/sarcasm]

**** faith. **** Jesus. **** Christianity. Hail Satan (also known as common sense).

---

Apologies if I'm being a tad too aggressive in this debate, it's just that when people come up to me sprouting crap about God coming to save us all, it gets me pissed off.